[JCO]

All the ice below the lowest pipe, inlet or outlet is wasted.

??? Who does that? You'd be putting ice on the floor of the chiller.

 

[CraigInPA]

JT5298, great job on your build. I've been thinking about trying some of the volumizer crystals but can't seem to find any reviews on the stuff.
When I used the pellet dry ice from my workplace, it performed great. Tried some block sheets of dry ice which I broke up from our local Harris Teeter
last year and was pretty disappointed.

Blocks versus pellets is all about surface area. Since the fog is filtering through the ice, having greater surface area (pellets) in contact with the fog would allow it to cool faster than having less surface area (block pieces).

 

[Janhaus]

(Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I'm just now reading through the 27 pages of this thread)
In doing research on building fog chillers I see two different approaches - one with (shorter) PVC piping, a la vortex fusion cooler and one with longer flexible aluminum piping (there's an 'ultimate fog chiller' howto posted on makezine.com <- there's a video in the comments section. Also another poster mentioned the Bose Einstein Fog chiller on youtube, it's mostly the same). Most of the comments on this thread (so far) seem to deal with deals on construction with PVC piping, is that because this method is much better vs the longer flexible piping method? Just checking before I start!

 

[BobbyA]

The difference is mostly, preference & capacity required.

 

[CraigInPA]

The flexible metal pipe design doesn't provide as much surface area to cool the fog as opposed to directly filtering the fog through the ice as the vortex chiller design does. As such, the flexible metal pipe design isn't going to work as well as a vortex chiller for larger, high velocity, foggers such as the Chauvet H1301 mentioned in this thread.

 

[Janhaus]

Thanks for the input Craig - I'm willing and open to building either so I'm open.
What I have is a Chauvet H1200, which is almost the same output for 1301 so I think I'll just go with what works for the larger velocity fogger.

 

[Shadowcaster]

Can you share what kind of/where you got that mesh? Really like to know what that is and - if possible - where to find it. Thanks

 

[CraigInPA]

I found mesh with 1/2" spacing as a 2'x5' long roll in the fencing department at Home Depot recently.

 

[Janhaus]

Just built my first one this morning - question for folks: how do you prevent fog from exiting back out from the intake pipe? I put the fogger right against the pipe but a fair amount of fog is flowing back out from that initial point. Any good way to seal this (besides duct tape or similar)?

 

[Shadowcaster]

I wonder if it would generate enough pressure to actually project the fog...interesting idea but would you want to add a fan to make sure the fog is distributed across the scene more fully?

 

[Shadowcaster]

I found mesh with 1/2" spacing as a 2'x5' long roll in the fencing department at Home Depot recently.

Thanks...this stuff looks like a stainless steel hexagonal mesh though...probably doesn't work any better but I like how it seems to hold its own structure without a frame or bracing.

 

[Shadowcaster]

Not sure just yet as I haven''t really used it yet. I bet not too long since it's only a kitty litter pail and forcing hot fog through it.

I'd like to use a cooler but the wife "won't let me" buy a cooler and then put a hole in it.
I have an old long cooler but I think the cube ice chest cooler type would work a lot better with this design.

We have an annual halloween party for the family and it only it only lasts around 5 hours or so.

So idea,,,look at garage sales and maybe even thrift stores and get some throwaways. I lucked up and actually found three of them someone was throwing away. No, not too proud to rob another guy's trash can! But they really do work great...I ran fog thru mine last year for about four or five hours and in the morning still had frozen ice in them. Just don't trash a $500 Yeti! (PS...the wife will get over it sooner or later...its Halloween! Think of it as a long term investment. LOL!

 

[Janhaus]

I think so, yes. Anybody else have some thoughts? I've read all the posts on this thread with no definite response on why not lower the temperature of the intake pipe by submerging it in ice water so I went and built both. Over this last weekend I built 2 fog chillers - one with 30-gal Brute trashcan and the wire-mesh separate chamber vortex configuration (albeit using aluminum 4" duct instead of pvc) and a 27-gal version of the Bose-Einstein fogchiller (youtube for the vids) which essentially allows for pooling of ice-water around the input as well as output pipe. Nothing conclusive but it appears for me right now that the ice-water condense version works a bit better. I may test this out next weekend if I get a thermometer of sorts.

Here's a question for fog chillers…

Last year I went to a local group that showed how to build fog chillers in various configurations. All of these chillers used a flexible corrugated pipe to route the fog through the chiller. Most (if not all) designs were built to allow the water to drain away from the ice, which surrounded the pipe.

My question: Wouldn't you get a better thermal conduction if you had ice water around the pipes instead of just ice?

 

[CraigInPA]

I have a classic vortex chiller. 32 gallon trash can ($9.98 at Wal-Mart), 1/2" pvc frame (12" high due to my use of ice cubes, as opposed to 16" high for use with dry ice pellets), stainless 1/2" mesh held on to the pvc with zip ties, 3" input and 3" output, and 66 pounds of ice cubes. I'm running a Chauvet H1301 into it snug to the input side (i.e., no Y pipe). While it's good as designed, I made it better... At the top of the input (input comes through the side of the can, turns 90 degrees upward, and then ends about 3" from the top of the lid), I installed a 3" toilet floor flange. In the flange, I added a computer fan blowing upwards.

By doing thist, I've created a high pressure zone in the top of the can. This means that all the fog the machine produces is pulled upward into the can. The high pressure at the top of the can forces the fog through the ice. So, more or less, I get a continuous stream of fog, even though the fogger pauses in "continuous" mode. In order to prevent fog from leaking around the lid, I added 1/2" wide by 3/8" tall door insulation to the lid flange.

I could have placed the fan on the output side, at the bottom of the can, but for a few issues: 1. there's water dripping inside the can, so you don't want electrical stuff there, 2. putting the fan outside the unit would have required a better fit with the duct, 3. putting the fan on the output side would create a low pressure area at the bottom of the can, which could draw outside air into the can through my poorly cut input and output holes, eliminating the benefit of the fan.

I'm also distributing my fog through 4" black irrigation pipe (that's the corrugated flexible stuff with holes cut into it). Without the fan, I could get it to ooze out about 10' away. With the fan, It's easily doing the full 20' of pipe, giving a much better distribution than using the trash bag over the output pipe ever did.

 

[Kwll2112]

How well does the computer fan hold up to the fog? IOW, does it eventually corrode?

I have a classic vortex chiller. 32 gallon trash can ($9.98 at Wal-Mart), 1/2" pvc frame (12" high due to my use of ice cubes, as opposed to 16" high for use with dry ice pellets), stainless 1/2" mesh held on to the pvc with zip ties, 3" input and 3" output, and 66 pounds of ice cubes. I'm running a Chauvet H1301 into it snug to the input side (i.e., no Y pipe). While it's good as designed, I made it better... At the top of the input (input comes through the side of the can, turns 90 degrees upward, and then ends about 3" from the top of the lid), I installed a 3" toilet floor flange. In the flange, I added a computer fan blowing upwards.

By doing thist, I've created a high pressure zone in the top of the can. This means that all the fog the machine produces is pulled upward into the can. The high pressure at the top of the can forces the fog through the ice. So, more or less, I get a continuous stream of fog, even though the fogger pauses in "continuous" mode. In order to prevent fog from leaking around the lid, I added 1/2" wide by 3/8" tall door insulation to the lid flange.

I could have placed the fan on the output side, at the bottom of the can, but for a few issues: 1. there's water dripping inside the can, so you don't want electrical stuff there, 2. putting the fan outside the unit would have required a better fit with the duct, 3. putting the fan on the output side would create a low pressure area at the bottom of the can, which could draw outside air into the can through my poorly cut input and output holes, eliminating the benefit of the fan.

I'm also distributing my fog through 4" black irrigation pipe (that's the corrugated flexible stuff with holes cut into it). Without the fan, I could get it to ooze out about 10' away. With the fan, It's easily doing the full 20' of pipe, giving a much better distribution than using the trash bag over the output pipe ever did.

 

[Vater]

I have a classic vortex chiller. 32 gallon trash can ($9.98 at Wal-Mart), 1/2" pvc frame (12" high due to my use of ice cubes, as opposed to 16" high for use with dry ice pellets), stainless 1/2" mesh held on to the pvc with zip ties, 3" input and 3" output, and 66 pounds of ice cubes. I'm running a Chauvet H1301 into it snug to the input side (i.e., no Y pipe). While it's good as designed, I made it better... At the top of the input (input comes through the side of the can, turns 90 degrees upward, and then ends about 3" from the top of the lid), I installed a 3" toilet floor flange. In the flange, I added a computer fan blowing upwards.

By doing thist, I've created a high pressure zone in the top of the can. This means that all the fog the machine produces is pulled upward into the can. The high pressure at the top of the can forces the fog through the ice. So, more or less, I get a continuous stream of fog, even though the fogger pauses in "continuous" mode. In order to prevent fog from leaking around the lid, I added 1/2" wide by 3/8" tall door insulation to the lid flange.

I could have placed the fan on the output side, at the bottom of the can, but for a few issues: 1. there's water dripping inside the can, so you don't want electrical stuff there, 2. putting the fan outside the unit would have required a better fit with the duct, 3. putting the fan on the output side would create a low pressure area at the bottom of the can, which could draw outside air into the can through my poorly cut input and output holes, eliminating the benefit of the fan.

I'm also distributing my fog through 4" black irrigation pipe (that's the corrugated flexible stuff with holes cut into it). Without the fan, I could get it to ooze out about 10' away. With the fan, It's easily doing the full 20' of pipe, giving a much better distribution than using the trash bag over the output pipe ever did.

Please post pics/vids of your chiller!

 

[JT5298]

I have a classic vortex chiller. 32 gallon trash can ($9.98 at Wal-Mart), 1/2" pvc frame (12" high due to my use of ice cubes, as opposed to 16" high for use with dry ice pellets), stainless 1/2" mesh held on to the pvc with zip ties, 3" input and 3" output, and 66 pounds of ice cubes. I'm running a Chauvet H1301 into it snug to the input side (i.e., no Y pipe). While it's good as designed, I made it better... At the top of the input (input comes through the side of the can, turns 90 degrees upward, and then ends about 3" from the top of the lid), I installed a 3" toilet floor flange. In the flange, I added a computer fan blowing upwards.

By doing thist, I've created a high pressure zone in the top of the can. This means that all the fog the machine produces is pulled upward into the can. The high pressure at the top of the can forces the fog through the ice. So, more or less, I get a continuous stream of fog, even though the fogger pauses in "continuous" mode. In order to prevent fog from leaking around the lid, I added 1/2" wide by 3/8" tall door insulation to the lid flange.

I could have placed the fan on the output side, at the bottom of the can, but for a few issues: 1. there's water dripping inside the can, so you don't want electrical stuff there, 2. putting the fan outside the unit would have required a better fit with the duct, 3. putting the fan on the output side would create a low pressure area at the bottom of the can, which could draw outside air into the can through my poorly cut input and output holes, eliminating the benefit of the fan.

I'm also distributing my fog through 4" black irrigation pipe (that's the corrugated flexible stuff with holes cut into it). Without the fan, I could get it to ooze out about 10' away. With the fan, It's easily doing the full 20' of pipe, giving a much better distribution than using the trash bag over the output pipe ever did.

It sounds like you have yours set up in reverse with the long curved pipe as the inlet and the short as the outlet. I assume due to the fan like you explained. My chiller last year would only put fog out about 10 feet or so from the trash can. I had a long 3ft extension on the inlet with a Y adapter and then a 2ft or so extension on the outlet with a trash bag. I think this contributed to the fog not dispersing very far. (I'm using a Chauvet 1301 as well) My mesh was pretty low too, about 10 inches high so I ended up with 4 20lb bags of ice filling the trash can.

WOLFPACK's video shows the fog going well out into the yard at least 20ft. I know he used dry ice pellets but I wouldn't think this would contribute to the distance the fog traveled as much as the density or how low the fog stayed to the ground. I'm going to take the extensions off this year and raise the mesh a little and see if that changes the distance it travels. I would like to see a video of yours in action as well.

 

[CraigInPA]

Yes, I'm running mine reverse from the original design. The problem I have with the original design is that it's counter intuitive to laws of thermodynamics.

In the original design, the hot fog is put into the bottom of the can, and forced upward through the ice to what I'll call the "output chamber". When it reaches the output chamber, it drops back out of the chiller through the long curved "output pipe". The problem with this is that ice melts. As the ice melts, the space above the ice increases. That makes the output pipe further and further away from the the top of the ice. As the gap increases between the top of the pipe and the ice, you accumulate fog between the ice and the output pipe entrance. The coldest fog will be at the bottom of the output chamber because it is in contact with the ice. The new fog coming through the ice, and the fog above the layer of fog at the ice layer will be slightly warmer. That slightly warmer fog is what will be going out of the output pipe. The larger the gap between the ice and the top of the container, the larger the difference in temperature. Adding a puller fan to the output pipe outside the can does not actually help the problem of this design, as the first fog to be drawn through the output pipe will always be the fog farthest from the ice, which is not the coldest fog in the output chamber. The overall design is good if you can keep the ice at the level of the output pipe entrance, but gets increasingly less efficient as the level of ice drops.

Running it backwards means it doesn't really matter how much ice is in the can, as long as there is enough to effectively cool the fog. When the hot fog comes out the long curved tube, it's hitting the top of the can and being forced down through the ice. The pusher fan is creating a positive pressure zone when the fogger takes a break, so no fog goes back out that long curved tube. As the fog is forced through the ice, it gets colder. By the time it gets to the bottom of the can, it's as cold as it's going to get. The coldest fog falls immediately to the bottom of the can, where it goes through the output tube and escapes to the atmosphere. There will be little to no "build up" of fog in the area underneath the ice (the output chamber in this design) because the space remains a constant size. Having a smaller space may actually work better than a larger one, although I haven't actually tried it yet.

I'll be running mine again on October 27 for the kid's Halloween party, and will shoot some video so you can see how it works.

 

[RJ MacReady]

Any reccomendations on a fog machine for a 30x10 yard?

im planning on making a chiller for it and using froggys low lying frog juice. Trying to find a machine that wont break the bank but also comes with a timer

 

[CraigInPA]

The issue outside is wind. If you have more than the very slightest breeze, you won't be able to fully fill the yard even with a commercial fogger if you are distributing the fog from one spot. There's a thread on here somewhere where the poster describes using a series of solid and perforated tubes around the perimeter of his hard to mitigate the effect of wind. For a long thin yard such as yours, you might be able to utilize a similar design with a smaller fogger. My first attempt at fogging outside was with a 900w fogger with the output through drainage tubes filled with frozen bottles of water. It actually worked pretty good and filled the 20x20 foot space. After a while, I had to switch the first few bottles, as they thawed fairly quickly.