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My 3 axis skull...in progress

589585 Views 2217 Replies 203 Participants Last post by  HalloweenBob
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I have a couple of pictures of my prototype. I will take a bunch of new pictures as I make the other three skulls, but this should give you an idea of what I am doing.

I am making a singing quartet based on (That means idea stolen from) Mike C's Graveyard Quartet. Ever since I saw his video I couldn't get it out of my head.

A neighbor of mine with a machine shop has helped me with the prototype, machining some of the parts I needed, and helping with the design.

I have been using the prototype to do some programming to make sure it all works with Brookshire's VSA software. So far, so good. I will post detailed pics of every step as I start making more skulls, but for now, here's a couple of basic shots with labels on them.



The Jaw servo was not mounted yet in this pic. It is in now. You can see the mounting screws and the linkage wire in the pic. The servo mounts standing up on end. I will add pictures of that later. The eyelid servo is mounted under the plexi-glass. That one is not hooked up yet, but when it is, it will be attached to one of the eyeballs...I am using wooden balls for eyes. It will move it up and down, not side to side. The purpose is to make it appear that it is blinking. I have large fake eyelases that will be attached to the eyeballs. When the eye is moved down, it appears to be closing as the top eyelid moves down with it. In the pic below, you can see the slot cut in the eye socket where the armature will go to move the eyeball. Don't worry, I will post pictures of that as well. I am using a 3/16 rod end as the gimbal which allows movement in all directions. When I build the next one, I will have clear shots of that as well.



Feel free to ask questions, and I will answer as best I can. I now have it hooked up to VSA and it is working very well. I am using the lightweight Pirate Skull and so I do not need springs, elastics or counterweights.
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I jut finished all 216 pages and what an odyssey and journey for everyone involved.Simply amazing.
GraveyardBob, Sindy et al are wonderful and I see all of the journeys and just shake my head...

I've found a lot of references to a site that no longer exists. Without trying to dredge up the bad, I was wondering whatever happened to GraveYardSkulls?
I jut finished all 216 pages and what an odyssey and journey for everyone involved.Simply amazing.
GraveyardBob, Sindy et al are wonderful and I see all of the journeys and just shake my head...

I've found a lot of references to a site that no longer exists. Without trying to dredge up the bad, I was wondering whatever happened to GraveYardSkulls?
They were bought out and supposedly were going to relaunch, but they were also undercut by triaxialskulllabs.com , graveyardskulls has been down for about a year now.
Yes, I don't think it's coming back, at least not as Graveyardskulls. I have nothing to do with what happens to the buisness-side of that company. They were selling my designs, so I got a small cut on the skulls sold (although I am still owed money). I also helped people with troubleshooting and getting set up, learning the software and I made all the routines.

It's too bad, because it could have been good if it were run right.

I am still here to help anyone who purchased products from that company if you need help or want new routines, but I'm afraid I have no influence over the sales and website side of the company. I also heard it was sold a few times, but there seems to be no evidence to indicate that was true.

I will, of course post on this thread if I find out for sure that anything is happening on that front, but I wouldn't hold my breath.....unless you want to become a new prop for your own yard haunt.
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Bob. You've been a Halloween Saint Sir for us technically minded through the years. I can only speak for myself of course, but I want to Thank You from the bottom of my grave for all of your sharing of technical advice and hanging in there with us. roterhead just experienced the Spirit as I'm sure a lot more folks have through the years as I have. A lot of folks on this forum have benefited from your gracious time and from the others that have contributed to this thread. Thanks so much again Bob. We're home haunters, not professional. I see the results of your efforts all over the web. I still want a date with Sindy.
An off-season treat....or maybe it's a trick. No, it's a treat!

Thank you!

By the way, if anyone is interested, I 'Dug up' three old Classic Lindberg 3 axis skulls that I have had around as spares. They have never been used except to test them and I'm selling them on eBay if anyone is interested.

3 axis skulls for sale on eBay

Thank you!
Reviving this thread to ask a question.

There have been multiple rod ends mentioned that will work with a 3 axis skull, I went ahead and ordered these: 59915K272 Ptfe-lined Stainless Steel Ball Joint Rod End, 1/4"-28 Rh Male Shank, 1/4" Ball Id, 1"l Thread

the bearing is really really stiff, it moves, just takes a bit of force (I bought two and both of them are the same)

I am planning on using the Kmart skulls for these and was wondering if I should be looking at a different rod end, or if they are all pretty much identical as far as how rigid the bearing is.

I almost ordered this one this morning: 2458K121
Carbon-Fiber Insert Ball Joint Rod End, 1/4"-28 RH Male Shank, 1/4" Ball ID, 1" Long Thread

but thought I would ask here first for advice.

I was planning on using the 425BB servos for tilt/nod/pan but even using them, I am worried about the amount of tension/weight they will be pushing for the tilt and nod specifically.

Am I just being paranoid?
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If I remember I just bought some least expensive rod ends from McMaster Carr, I did not have any issues with them as they rotated very freely within the rod end itself. This is the one I used. http://www.mcmaster.com/#60645K121
If I remember I just bought some least expensive rod ends from McMaster Carr, I did not have any issues with them as they rotated very freely within the rod end itself. This is the one I used. http://www.mcmaster.com/#60645K121
Thank you very much!
Just noticed that this thread is referenced in the September edition of Nuts & Volts magazine. Very cool!
HallweenBob,

I got your back! I made a quick video for everyone to show the linkage.

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Just noticed that this thread is referenced in the September edition of Nuts & Volts magazine. Very cool!
Nelson, hopefully you also saw the link to your site that I put in the Picaxe article.
Nelson, hopefully you also saw the link to your site that I put in the Picaxe article.
I haven't finished reading yet but that's awesome. Very much appreciated!!! I was wondering if you were behind these.
I missed a few posts here earlier this year. Never saw my notifications in my email. Sorry for that. If it is still relevant, it was the McMaster-Carr part posted by bfjou812 back in post #2167 that we used, or whatever equivalent there was to that part back in 2007. But really any rod end would work. Just choose one with enough degrees of motion and a reasonable size. It doesn't have to hold up a lot of weight.

Also thanks to ibjeepin for posting the video showing the rod end and how it is connected.

Sorry I spaced out on those posts.

I would like to mention that the bracket added that was attached to the plate and held the Rod End was almost always part of the design from the beginning. Long before Graveyardskulls got a hold of it.

It's true, I initially tried mounting the Rod End directly to the skull and it worked, but getting the same angle on every skull was next to impossible. at about page 10 of this thread, you can follow the development of the 'A' bracket that incorporated into the design that actually was a turning point in getting the design to be transferable and removable from the skull.

Here's where it happened:
http://www.halloweenforum.com/hallo...10.html?highlight=my+3+axis+skull+in+progress

Thanks again for stepping in with that video. It's good to know I'm covered by good people here if I miss a post or two.

Thanks,
Bob
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Inspirational and Questions

I wanted to chime in here since I just finished reading all 218 pages of this thread...it was quite an emotional roller-coaster at times. I showed my wife some of the latest videos of Halloween Bob's setup because I found those before this thread. Then when I got to the point HB had to sell his setup I was heartbroken for him...I shared that with my wife. I was excited to see when he started up a new trio and then started making improvements to the 3-axis design...I think I also found a video of that before finding this thread, which is what prompted me to read the whole thread. It was also quite inspirational for me and I want to thank HB and everyone that contributed to this thread for that inspiration.

I ended up here because I got an Arduino kit for Christmas; not really any plans for it but I did want to start working towards some animatronics for our home haunt. First thing I did was Google Arduino and Halloween, came across a couple of flickering lights and such then found a talking skull setup, which led me to really home in on a 3-axis skull as my goal. After finding this thread, I immediately took a cheap $3 skull with moving jaw, gave him a lobotomy, and proceeded to rig up some wire and the lone, small servo that came with my kit, into this skull because I wanted to see his mouth move. Threw a quick program together for the Arduino and wired up the servo and a potentiometer so that when I turned the pot, the mouth would open and close. It doesn't work great, but for a quick job, his mouth moves when I turn the knob so that's a win in my book and I'm really excited about this now.

TL;DR - Halloween Bob and everyone here rocks and are an inspiration to home haunters.

After making it through the thread, I also have a few questions:
  • Does anyone have a complete part list of the latest v1 build with all the mods from the thread? I honestly last track as I was reading.
  • I know at one point, it was mentioned that drawings of v2 could be posted but I never saw that...is that still feasible? It seems if there is a better solution in place I may want to explore that first (cost and build wise)...not sure if that's a sore subject?
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Hi all. I built four of the 3 Axis Skulls, per Halloween Bob's page, back in 2010. I only run the things for Halloween, about 4-5 hours with breaks between each show. Now my HS-425BB Servos (using SSC-32 card BTW) seem to be all over the place and mis-firing for lack of a better term. I can run individual components from VSA but when I put the saved show back on (show runs via Helmsman) that I use every year so far things are not working right. Jaws stop, servos get jerky, I have LEDs for spots, via the SSC-32, and they don't run per the show. If I turn off line items, via VSA, say and only run the LED spot lights they work correctly but not if all line items are on.
Anyone have thoughts on why things are going nuts for me this year?
There can be many reasons for these problems. I will need a little history before making a good guess at the problem.

Is this a new routine that is giving you problems, or an older routine that used to work fine and now is having issues?

If it is an older routine, has anything been added to it?

What kind of power supply are you using?

How long are the extension wires going from the SSC-32 board to your servos? Has this length changed from previous years?

Jittery servos can be caused by lots of things. I will list the most common things that can cause problems:

1. Extension wires are too long and the signal to the servos is being degraded through the length of the wire (15 feet or longer may be too long)
2. There is a lose or disconnected ground wire somewhere in the system, probably on the SSC-32 card
3. The power supply does not provide enough amperage at the output to drive the number of servos/LEDs that you are using.
4. There are power wires running along side your servo extension wires which are causing interference with your signal wires.
5. The SSC-32 board has developed a problem
6. One of your servos is going bad, but is still functioning. This will put an increased drain on your power supply, causing random problems throughout the system. Check to see if any servo is getting hotter than the others, or one at a time, disconnect a single servo and see if everything else improves. If not, connect that servo back up and try disconnecting a different one.

Off the top of my head, those are the most common issues I have run into, and through the years, I have experienced every one of those issues at one time or another.

Please use some detail and describe your setup, giving me part numbers for your power supply, the number of servos (and other things) it is driving, the length of the wires, and anything else unique about your particular wiring and setup. Pictures would be helpful.

How thick is the wire you are using for your servo extensions? The longer the run, the thicker the wire should be in order to minimize signal loss.

I await more information,
Bob
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Sevros gone scary

Hi Bob.
Thank you ever so much for responding! I'm really freaking out, this close to Halloween, to have things go wrong and I'm not able to figure it out. Here is some background info for you...

When I built my system, in 2010, I made a "Skull Tool Box" [see attachment] to make things modular for easy pickup and storage. In it I have: (1) Kit-74 v2, (1) ATX power supply, and (1) SSC-32. I use DB15 connectors, with custom built 22 AWG cables to the 4 skulls and 4 LED 3VDC spot lights {in the faux microphones}. One cable per skull and one cable for all 4 spot lights. I also use three relay outputs, from the KIT-74 (relays are good) controlling two 12V lights for the show (1=mood lighting, 1=intermission sign) and one power to the SSC-32 to allow the servos a cool down period. Between each 'Skull Song' I put a small intermission bit of music to give the skulls a break - non constant running servos. In 2012 I added another song, and have used this program ever since. The hardware has never changed.

My full Quartet is actually 1 full 3-Axis skull, the lead singer, and 3 skulls with only jaw action, backup singers. I never took the time to finish the full project and all my visitors loved what I did so I kept it as is. I keep saying some day I'll finish them but I get busy with other things.
I use faux microphones with 3VDC white T5 LEDs in them as facial spot lights and I also have them (LEDs) programmed in the music for effects when there is no one singing etc.

Q: What kind of power supply are you using?
A--Computer ATX power supply for the entire system. Has worked great from the start, 2010.

Q: How long are the extension wires going from the SSC-32 board to your servos? Has this length changed from previous years?
A--The hardware setup has remained the same since 2010. Wires from the Tool Box are about 14' long and have worked from 2010 forward.

I have read your info. on "Jittery servos" and plan on trying just one skull at a time now to see if things change.

10.20.2015 -- 9pm update
Refresher here:
I have 4 skulls: 1 is a full 3-Axis unit and 3 are jaw movement only.
Each skull has a faux microphone with a T5 (3VDC) LED as a spot light.
I have 5 cables using 22AWG wire and DB15 connectors: 1 per skull, and 1 for all of the spot lights.

Testing Done:
I have tried running the entire system by starting with all skulls and the spots.
If everything was plugged in then nothing worked 100%. Spots stopped, servos did not goto full home positions, servos locked up or stopped.

Then I began pulling the DB15 plugs.
If all the skulls were unplugged the spots worked correctly.

None of the skulls alone or in combo worked 100% correctly.

Full 3-Axis skull -- with or without spots, with or without 0, 1 or more skulls
Some times the 3-Axis just stopped dead. All of the time at some point the servos did not return to their home or "Default Position." During a song servos did not move fully to the expected position or return fully most of the time.

Jaw only skulls -- with or without spots, with or without 0, 1 or more skulls
During a song servo(s) did not move fully to the expected position or return most of the time. All of the time at some point the servos did not return to their home or "Default Position."

Thanks again!
Sparkey

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Have you checked all of your voltages when under load? I'm thinking that your power supply may be getting ready to bite the dust. Are you using a resistor to start it? As Bob said if there is a bad ground or the power supply isn't able to support the current draw it will cause problems.
Have you checked all of your voltages when under load? I'm thinking that your power supply may be getting ready to bite the dust. Are you using a resistor to start it? As Bob said if there is a bad ground or the power supply isn't able to support the current draw it will cause problems.
I said the same thing a couple days ago, Sparkey posted this question in another thread located here post #9 http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/140606-servo-choice-3-axis-skull.html
In reading what you wrote and the testing you did, I would have to guess that the problem is in one of three areas. It is unlikely that all the servos in all the skulls have all suddenly gone bad at once. Your LEDs are working when run alone, so that suggests that they are OK, the wiring going to them are OK, and the relay board you are using is OK.

That leaves a ground problem in your wiring, the power supply itself, or the SSC-32 card.

Having one bad servo can draw down the power supply and cause these problems, but since you said that the problem persists even when you take each skull out of the circuit one at a time, I would have to say that is not the issue.

The easiest thing to do is check the easiest things first, then move on. First, use a voltmeter to check the output of your power supply to be sure it is giving you the proper voltage. Even if it does, that does not mean that your power supply isn't the problem, but if the voltage is wrong, then it most likely IS the problem. Confirm the voltage and then move on. Remember that the SSC-32 board power should never be less than 6VDC. The voltage going into the SSC-32 on the VL connector must be between 6 and 9 volts. The board runs on 5VDC, but it uses a voltage regulator on the board to convert whatever you put in down to 5VDC. The regulator itself uses up about 1 volt of power, so if you fed it 5VDC, the components on the board would only get 4VDC and could very well exhibit odd and erratic behavior. Be sure that has at least 6VDC. The VS input can be anything from 4.8VDC to 6VDC. That is what powers the servos.

The second easiest thing to check is your wiring.

Using a meter to check continuity and your eyes to look for physical issues, check the entire path of your power wires. Check every solder connection, check every screw connection on the SSC-32 board. Turn the board over and check the solder connections that hold the screw terminals to the board. They frequently develop cracks due to stress from over-tightening, or motion from the wires pulling on the terminal blocks. I have removed the screw terminals from more than one SSC-32 board and soldered the wires into the board directly to solve that very problem. It could be a break in a wire, an intermittent break, so move your wires around while testing, or a high resistance connection. It would be connected, but it's a poor connection, and it is dropping voltage across the high resistance caused by the bad connection.

Another way to solve a bad ground problem is to run a new ground wire. Don't remove the old one. Just get a new wire, connect it directly to the negative from the power supply, and run it to the SSC-32. Bypass the screw terminal and solder it directly to the board on the back side where the negative from the screw terminal goes in.

Before we move on, I need to know how you wired your extensions.

I usually only run the signal wires out through the extensions and I run a separate set of thicker wires out for power to the servos. That allows me to run fewer wires. Just two wires go out for power and get split out to individual servos at the skull end, and then one wire per servo for control as opposed to three wires for each servo. If you do wire it that way, you still have to connect the ground from the power supply that is driving the servos to the ground on the SSC-32 board from the VS input. Otherwise you can get erratic behavior.

If all your wiring checks out and running new grounds and new positive wires along side your old ones does not solve the issue, it's time to start swapping out parts.

The first thing to swap out is the power supply. Just because it is reading the correct voltage at the output doesn't mean it is not still the problem. It could be that the power supply is no longer providing the current that it should, or it's characteristics may be changing when under load. Replace it with a different power supply and give it a run.

I also couldn't see from your picture if you are using two separate power supplies or just one on the SSC-32 board. I know you are using the 12v for some of the lights through the relays, but that's not the part I am questioning. What are you using to power the VL input? Is that separate from what you are using to power the VS input? Unless it is a 6VDC power supply, they should be two separate things. As I mentioned, the VL input should be between 6VDC and 9VDC. the VS input can be as low as 4.8VDC but not higher than 6VDC or you will start burning up servos, or shortening their life. If you are running both off the same 5VDC output from the computer power supply you are using, that could be your problem, and you have just been lucky up to this point. The VL input (Which stands for Voltage to Logic, or the chips on the board) Requires no less than 6VDC. For a test, run it off a 9V battery and make sure the jumpers are set correctly so that the VL and VS are NOT sharing the same input. You want the VL=VS jumper removed when using two separate power supplies.

See if that solves your problem running the SSC-32 with a 9V battery and the jumper removed. Use the power supply you have for VS. If you still are having the issue, then swap out the power supply, leaving the 9V batter in place on the VL input.

After that, if the problem persists, you may need to swap the SSC-32 board. It may have developed an issue. They are making different ones now that take a USB input directly. No need for a USB to Serial adapter. If you want to swap apples for apples, I have an old-style SSC-32 board I can send you as fast as you want it if you don't mind paying for shipping.

If you are still having issues, or you are not following along with these instructions and need help, call me at 603-646-3556. I will attempt to talk you through it.
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