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· His name is Roger Clyne
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There's a big difference between inspiration and infringement, though. Why can't the companies take ideas and not complete designs? It wouldn't be too hard for Morbid or whoever made it to produce a scary rag doll or a two-headed doll after seeing Jodi's work, but outright stealing the idea and making minor tweaks to the design seems pointless. Just come up with your own take on the idea, companies! If they're going to use artists' work, they shouldn't infringe, and certainly not make it so blatant.
The simple answer to why they do it is:

They do it because they can. And it's not pointless, it's pretty lucrative actually. They don't have to pay artists to come up with original ideas, they make it all for pennies then sell it for big $$$. I get why they do it.

I don't like it, but I understand it.

Grandin Road has been accused of stealing ideas more than once when really it's not Grandin Road, it's the maker of the props they're selling that's stealing ideas. Grandin Road is just selling stuff that's made in China by some company that probably trolls this board & others like it, looking for cool props. They go to their trade show in February (or whenever) & say "I'll take that & that & those Deadwalkers are cool, gimme 300 of those." Then boom, it's on their site at Halloween & most people buying their stuff have no clue. I'd guess most of the general Halloween buying public don't know about the thefts because it's not part of their daily grind like it is for the folks here.

From Pumpkinrot's blog:
GR stealing Grim's Cloaked Ghost & more.

Folks like the artists there & here just don't have the deep pockets & it's cheaper & faster to troll the vast interwebs & see Mr. & Mrs. Deadwalker there & copy it with some minor changes.

What can you do? Well, if you've got the money you could go after them but good luck finding out who actually made those props. They generally don't have makers tags in them outside of the name on the box & "Made in China" on them.

Or just don't buy it, buy more of the stuff the artists who are the original makers of the stuff.

It's a tough thing to deal with but when you put your stuff out there, whether it's here, on your own site, on Etsy, etc., you can get ripped off. The only way to truly avoid it is to make your stuff & leave it in your house & never post or share any pics. But what's the point of that?

In a way it's a backhanded compliment in that they think enough of your stuff to copy it, but it's still gotta suck.

I don't actually know of anyone that's taken on a big company that's stolen their ideas, does anyone else know anyone that's done it?
 

· Vintage Halloween'er
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2,997 Posts
I am gonna step in here again...well, maybe its more a question...How can we get mad when for instance this Morbid company makes a doll that looks like a version of the one that Jodi makes...when Jodi has dolls that look like versions of Raggedy Ann, versions of dolls with clothes that look like that artist Jasmine Beckett something and versions of Disney dolls? I am not attacking anyone..because when I paint..I paint anything from old postcards to Disney and whatever else, I feel I am doing "my version" of it...but once I was asked to stop painting this one picture because it belonged to someone..so I did as asked and then quit painting anything unless I knew it was vintage...lol...I have actually seen things on pinterest that I thought I had painted and it was someone else who had copied what I did..I think a lot of Artist see things and do their own versions...My sister sews expensive doll clothes..she gets copied all the time..but people who know her name, know what are imitations and copies..I guess maybe I would be aggravated if it was a company selling hundreds of something I designed out of my head with no ideas from something I had seen before...but that is probably highly unlikely..I actually am kind of on the fence between flattery and being aggravated..not sure ...


And before anyone decides to think I am saying anything bad here..its not meant to be bad, its inquiring..Are we getting mad because its a big company that sells mass quantities of this "copied" product ? Or just the idea copying in general?
 

· His name is Roger Clyne
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10,961 Posts
Good question!

Of course we wouldn't know if some other smaller artist copied something unless we knew & bought from those artists personally, but when a large company like Morbid or whoever GR bought those pieces from do it, it's seen nationwide to a larger audience to there's a bigger chance of knowing the theft happened.

I dunno the answer to the question either. Maybe it's a little of both?
 

· The guru is IN
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1,244 Posts
There's a big difference between inspiration and infringement, though. Why can't the companies take ideas and not complete designs? It wouldn't be too hard for Morbid or whoever made it to produce a scary rag doll or a two-headed doll after seeing Jodi's work, but outright stealing the idea and making minor tweaks to the design seems pointless. Just come up with your own take on the idea, companies! If they're going to use artists' work, they shouldn't infringe, and certainly not make it so blatant.
It's a shame because Morbid has came up with some GREAT original designs before
 

· The guru is IN
Joined
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1,244 Posts
I am gonna step in here again...well, maybe its more a question...How can we get mad when for instance this Morbid company makes a doll that looks like a version of the one that Jodi makes...when Jodi has dolls that look like versions of Raggedy Ann, versions of dolls with clothes that look like that artist Jasmine Beckett something and versions of Disney dolls? I am not attacking anyone..because when I paint..I paint anything from old postcards to Disney and whatever else, I feel I am doing "my version" of it...but once I was asked to stop painting this one picture because it belonged to someone..so I did as asked and then quit painting anything unless I knew it was vintage...lol...I have actually seen things on pinterest that I thought I had painted and it was someone else who had copied what I did..I think a lot of Artist see things and do their own versions...My sister sews expensive doll clothes..she gets copied all the time..but people who know her name, know what are imitations and copies..I guess maybe I would be aggravated if it was a company selling hundreds of something I designed out of my head with no ideas from something I had seen before...but that is probably highly unlikely..I actually am kind of on the fence between flattery and being aggravated..not sure ...


And before anyone decides to think I am saying anything bad here..its not meant to be bad, its inquiring..Are we getting mad because its a big company that sells mass quantities of this "copied" product ? Or just the idea copying in general?
To your logic there is no such thing as plagiarism. I could just copy someone's YT video and say "no I just took inspiration in their video" when I get a copyright strike
 

· Vintage Halloween'er
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2,997 Posts
No, to my logic..there are limits..but its hard to say someone copied unless it is exact because so many people make the same things and most get the ideas from someone else..not out of their own minds..I don't know how true it is, but I was once told by an art teacher that its rare when an artist paints from their own mind..that the visions they paint are visions they have seen somewhere before and the mind stores them and then they add their style to it...

And I was just asking...just out of curiosity..because I do paint "my versions" of things and thought someone may know the boundaries since the subject was copying...Ya never know unless you ask..:)
 

· Registered
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2,879 Posts
To your logic there is no such thing as plagiarism. I could just copy someone's YT video and say "no I just took inspiration in their video" when I get a copyright strike
I didn't get that out of what she said-- that there's no such thing as plagiarism. I got that ideas, and bits and pieces of ideas, are borrowed all the time, and "the crowd" gets selectively upset. It's nearly impossible to prove who was the first to come up with a particular concept and it's hard to draw a line saying how much appropriating is too much. If you do an Image Search you'll finds some cloth Goth dolls from another maker, from over a decade ago-- some with the same hair, and some with the mouths stitched exactly the same way. So was *she* ripped off, or did Jodi Cain just independently come up with just a couple nearly-identical details? We don't know. She probably couldn't even say for sure whether she saw the others before she came up with hers. Clearly Mobid's design copied hers (I'll grant the irony over the logo! Almost amusing!), but where is the cutoff line? How similar is too similar? How many details can be the same before it's too many?
People are still getting all in a lather over Terra's Beloved stone. I've said it before-- she did an amazing, wonderfully artistic job. Her stone is a treasure--but she herself said she got the concept from a Beloved tombstone at Castleblood, and there are actual old tombstones with carved statues of grief-stricken women from which CastleBlood probably took their idea. So who are the villains? If you have a quick answer, you're probably not giving it enough thought.
There was a GR bashing thread last fall where people were worrying that the description (pictures not yet released at that point) of a wreath sounded a lot like an Etsy sellers' Maleficent wreath. There was a lot of concern that the Etsy seller might have been copied, but not a lot of concern over that seller's blatant appropriation of Disney's design.
She can correct me if I'm wrong, but MY take on what Kelloween said is that it's a complicated issue. There's a lot of gray area, and there's very little currently offered for sale that doesn't use some elements of someone else's previous work.
 

· Registered
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149 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Unfortunately, I had the same suggestion when talking to someone about it. While she shouldn't have been ripped off, her dolls of Lily/Eddie/Herman Munster, Coraline, Raggedy Ann and Andy, and the Addams Family, to name a few, could have a similar issue. While I don't doubt that they're meant to be loving tributes to the characters (and probably the result of custom orders), it could potentially get Jodi herself in hot water if the copyright holders to those characters found out. I. personally, think they're cool, but the companies who created the characters probably wouldn't.
 
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