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Help Needed! Recommendations for projections behind an odd window setup / Hollusions style

4K views 11 replies 5 participants last post by  La_Cal89 
#1 Ā· (Edited)
Hallo,

Since I have a spooky-ish Victorian house, I'd love to put a hologram illusion in the front window. However, this might be tricky and I know that a number of you are real experts. Rather than spend quite a bit of dough on something that doesn't work, I thought I'd poll the brain trust. I have a nice little Epson projector that should project wonderfully.

Here's the situation:
  • My front windows are large, about 9-feet wide x 4-1/2 feet tall, split by a number of mullions. This will be great for a horizontal illusion
  • Somewhere along the decades, someone decided to install a second pane inside the outside pane, for acoustic and no doubt insulating properties.
  • I've read elsewhere on this forum that even one pane of glass can cause a double image, and a double-paned window can cause even more.
  • But wait, it gets better! The panes on my windows are ABOUT 4 INCHES APART FROM ONE ANOTHER!
So I'm looking for the best material to put across the windows. I've seen the great video comparing fabrics, which recommends the JoAnn chiffon (no longer made in that color). (See link below, and thank you to the great guy who made this).

Also I've read that shower curtains are good for rear projection. But none of the great advice seems to address my particular situation. Here are my questions and I'd really appreciate anyone who's done holographic-style illusions to jump in with ANY ideas:
  1. Is there a material that works best with double-paned windows that minimizes image-doubling?
  2. In the case of dual-paned windows, is it better to install the material on the outside of the outer glass or the inside of the inner glass? (projecting from the inside)?
  3. I would like to be able to see out of my windows during the day, so is there a good translucent material?
  4. In the case of chiffon (looking like an excellent choice), does anyone have a current (or even the past couple of years) FABRIC BRAND AND COLOR they've used effectively?​
  5. If a plastic material like a shower curtain works great, please give a brand/finish.​
Any ideas and discussion would be great before I flail around with something that just won't work! Thanks in advance.

 
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#2 Ā·
it's not likely that anyone else has window panes 4" apart ... no idea why they did this because that isn't going to have much of an insulating effect as there will be convection currents between the panes due to the large distance between panes. normal double panes are probably 1/8" or 1/4" inch apart ... so, i recommend doing a test to see if the double window panes mess things up ... maybe just using the projector directly on the windows would give you an indication if a hollusion effect would work ... if you can see 2 images, then i think that the effect would be ruined ... normal double panes, due to their close proximity to each other probable also have 2 images, but since they're so close to each other, the brain probably combines them into 1, but 2 images separated by a significant distance, such as 4", isn't combined into 1

even single pane windows likely have 2 images, one on the front and another on the back of the glass

let us know what you find :)

they material that would be used for the hollusion won't affect the reflection issues because most of the light for the image goes through and only a small proportion gets reflected off of the material to produce the see through hollusion

amk
 
#3 Ā·
The house is more than 130 years old. The second pane of glass was added within the last 30 years. This was not a retrofit of new windows, just the addition of a pane near the inside of the casement. So these are not ā€œdouble pane windows.ā€ These are two separate panes of glass mounted separately within the partition.
 
#4 Ā·
The easiest solution would be to smash out all the extra panes and problem solved :LOL:

Okay, all kidding aside, if there is no practical way of removing a pane easily, the solution I would have is make sure the projector is as far back as possible, and a perfect 90 degree angle both left and right, and top to bottom from the center point of the window, this should keep the double image to a minimum. The film would definitely be best on the outside of the exterior window.

Are you planning on covering each window pane separately? If your trying for one large piece of plastic or cloth to cover the whole window, you will be able to see the mullions in the projection. There is a plastics shop near me that sells a variety of non permanent window tints that stick onto the windows with just water and is easily removed.
 
#5 Ā·
I know all about old house problems and weird, confusing, wacky decisions people make doing renovations.

Do you want to do a "hollusion" style projection? Where your screen material is sheer/invisible, and you can see the background room through it? I think that will give you trouble with the light shining through to the outside glass. Using either a projection with a background included, or where the bg is plain and dark, and projection onto a more solid screen material will give a better result IME.

I do a rear-projection into the window from inside. What I use are plastic $1 table cloths, in silver/gray color, put up with painter's tape. I have found these to be the best projector-light-grabbing, least hotspot showing, most effective option for my needs. I do not have to worry too much about hiding the projector beam/bulb, because the plastic dulls it. Gray is the right color, neutral, white gets washed out and black is too dark. Think movie screen. Shower curtains, the other highly recommended option, didn't work out for me and cost more. The plastic film is just the right thickness to capture the light/image, without letting too much through to the outside.

With any of these things, you'll have to experiment a lot to make it work for your situation. But I think rear-projecting onto a semi-opaque screen like the plastic table covers, will avoid any image doubling.

BTW, an extra pane of glass is sometimes added to old houses instead of a screen. Not to insulate, but to protect the old, wavy glass. That stuff's $$$ to replace, if you can even get it, and new glass looks funny.


Anyway, here's what I end up with. Sam in the doorway, with the fake room as part of the projection, and reaper in the window against black. The doorway is open, with just the plastic across it. The window is two layers of glass, with the plastic on the inside. You will get reflections from outdoor lights, and have to contend with it not showing up until dark.

740378
 
#6 Ā·
Fantastic! Certainly a technique I can experiment with without spending big bucks!

And I know these secondary panes were put in in the early 80s as sound reduction barriers. They work quite well for that and, oddly, do perform pretty well thermally. But thatā€™s probably because the rest of the house leaks like a sieve! :)

thanks! Any and all other ideas still appreciated.
 
#7 Ā·
- I very much doubt you'll be able to avoid a double image when you have two panes of glass 4 inches apart. Try projecting with no material on the window at all and see what happens.

- If by some miracle you DON'T get a double image you could try Chiffon for Hollusion fabric. JoAnn's Casa Collection Chiffon in Platinum does work great but apparently it's not available anymore. Grey Lilac is a decent substitute, and I just recently heard the item number they used for Platinum now shows up as Grey Velvet. I just browsed JoAnn's website and a LOT of their stuff is out of stock. This stuff I found on Amazon looks like it would work fine. $6.95 for a yard or $19.95 for five yards. Free shipping, but you better hurry if you want it by Halloween. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4TZLVR/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

- For regular projections I use a shower curtain from Walmart, flat white, not frosted. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Light-Weight-Shower-Liner-White/104751382
 
#8 Ā·
Very helpful, thank you. We were just talking last night about just trying a plain video, then testing materials. And yes, it's getting rather late!

Still wondering if material should be applied against the inner or outer pane. Now I'm thinking that if it's something more opaque, like a shower curtain or tablecloth, we should use the inside (which is less gross anyway.

That way I figure there might be less bleed/double image to the outer pane.
 
#10 Ā·
Thank you to everyone who has responded to me!

Thanks to all your good advice, we thought it best to project on a surface mounted inside the two panes of glass. Also to use a mostly-opaque material to mitigate any possible image doubling.

Before spending a lot of money, we went to the dollar store and picked up both white plastic table cloths (gray were not available) and gray shower curtain liners. Both were of very thin materials, as one would expect for the price.

First we tested on the white material mounted inside the inner window. The image looked great, but the window was noticeably lighter than the other three windows across the front of our house.

So we mounted the darker, gray shower curtain material and tried that.

The image still looks terrific and with the lights off (as is typical for that room) you can barely see any difference between it and the other windows.

It really looks like the creatures are inside the house.

Our neighbors who saw the test said jokingly that it would give them nightmares.

We are probably going to tweak the position of the projector slightly to avoid some keystoning, but because our house is well above the street, we donā€™t have a problem with seeing the projector throw light. So this has all worked out great and now my husband is talking about getting three more projectors so we can do the other three windows next year!

Super successful, and completely inexpensive due to your great advice. Big pads on the back for helping out a newbie to create a really successful illusion!
 
#11 Ā·
First we tested on the white material mounted inside the inner window. The image looked great, but the window was noticeably lighter than the other three windows across the front of our house.
OK so here's how you improve that:

Get some BLACK Chiffon. Put it in between the shower curtain and the inside of the window. This will blacken the window and kill any ambient reflection from external light sources, and the projection still shines through and makes a good image on your main material.

If you're having trouble visualizing that, here's what I mean:

 
#12 Ā·
You bring up some very interesting points, JCO.

BTW, I watched your entire long material test video a few times before attempting this at all, or posting my question with weird window situation. It was extremely helpful and I don't think it was too long at all.

However, it did illustrate that our situation was quite different, which led me to NOT SPEND UNNECESSARY $$ before asking advice.

Mainly your points here about time of evening are most pertinent, as by the time we got it set up last night it was quite dark (color you shocked--it took longer than expected or desired!)

Our contrast was quite excellent with the gray curtain, but we will have the thing on earlier tonight so we'll have to see. Our house is both far back from and much higher than the street, so a brighter image, even with less of a black point, might still be more desirable. (That and the effort to move things around every night is probably more than my lazy self would take on).

However it is true that the occlusive, light gray "screen" may be more visible in the early evenings. So we'll have to take a look this evening.

Additionally, we have orange string lights hanging from our overhanging porch, and they do and always will cast a double-reflection through the double-panes behind them. This is not actually a horrible thing, unless someone were to get maniacally concerned over our strangely large gap between the panes. Effectively it makes it look like there are 3 strings of lights. Since the projection isn't doubling, and occurs behind these lights, it make it look more "real" in the sense that the artificially-hung orange lights are clearly a decoration, so those bizarre phantoms must be real, right? šŸ˜ŗ

Thanks for your generosity with time and expertise, folks! The fact that we were able to make this what I would consider very good on about $4 investment (we already had a projector) and just two tests of material is all thanks to YOU!!!
 
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