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Discussion Starter #1
I don't understand why people want to make ground fog so hard. While the vortex designs work its inefficient. A abs pipe with chunks of dry ice works better, its smaller, its cheaper and there is no mess. Dry ice prices have come way down, so I just don't get it. Are people afraid of the stuff? Don't eat it and use gloves. Pretty basic. Sorry guys if i seem irritated. I just got done helping a friend with his 2 home made (vortex) chillers and I just don't get it. Yes he is afraid of dry ice. Anyway I'm sure I'll get at least one flame for this but oh well. I had to pose the question.:confused:
 

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Mistress of Mayhem
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Not a flame, but I will tell you that for me, dry ice is not convenient. There's only one small dairy that sells it, and it's quite the drive to get there. And yes, I would be the one who would burn herself to smithereens with it anyway.

I think a lot of it has to do with the info on the www. People read reviews of set ups and think "THAT'S what I need to do!" IMO, there is more info on using chillers than there is on using dry ice, so that might be part of the reason.
 

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I'm with Robzilla69, but sometimes the price is too high. The best price I can find locally (Glacier Ice Co, the source) is $25 for 20 lbs. However, I have two chillers to feed, and the largest one needs ~60 lbs of ice cubes, the smaller one ~30 lbs. The bottom line may be a wash. And dry ice isn't scary - just wear some medium-thick gloves.
 

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Dry ice is not as easy to find in some areas. Dry ice may be cheap in some places, but I think that may be regional.

I have a simple easy homemade fog chiller that I have used for years that only took a while to make.

I also have a self-contained low-lying fog machine. This year, I have to just get some ice from the freezer or go get extra regular ice from 7-11 and go. I do not want to drive for miles to get dry ice and then deal with it.

This seems to be a personal preference thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I run 1 1000w foger and 2 400w fogers on 10 lbs of dry ice and they last 6-8 hours. I pay $1.10 a pound , so its $11 bucks a night . You don't need nearly as much dry ice as you do water ice and the cost is about the same for me anyway. :D oh yes and no water left over to make a mess!
 

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robzilla69 what's your setup with ABS pipe, dry ice and a fogger? Can you use PVC instead? My husband found a place last year to get dry ice and I would rather use it for this than a bunch of water filled plastic cauldrons and blowing up soda bottles (all good fun but guess who got to clean up the mess).
 

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I have a fog machine but are you saying that you can use dry ice as an alternative to a fog machine or that you add the dry ice in the fog machine? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but I have a limited vocabulary when it comes to this subject and have no idea what a vortex is. LOL. But yeah, please elaborate if you could ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
robzilla69 what's your setup with ABS pipe, dry ice and a fogger? Can you use PVC instead? My husband found a place last year to get dry ice and I would rather use it for this than a bunch of water filled plastic cauldrons and blowing up soda bottles (all good fun but guess who got to clean up the mess).
Here is my set up. i have tried 2' to 5' lengths and don't notice any difference beyond 3'. I drill 3/8" holes. pvc is fine but its white so i don't use it for that reason. hope this helps!

i only need the bricks on my big foger the smaller ones just rests on the ground
 

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Discussion Starter #10
one side note the pipe gets cold! therefore it can get brittle! Don't put it anywhere where a door or something like that will hit it! Been there broke that!
 

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Typical Ghoul Next Door
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I have a fog machine but are you saying that you can use dry ice as an alternative to a fog machine or that you add the dry ice in the fog machine? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but I have a limited vocabulary when it comes to this subject and have no idea what a vortex is. LOL. But yeah, please elaborate if you could ;)

Basic fogger chiller and fogger info

Foggers work by taking the fog "juice" glycol mix and spraying out a fine mist through a heated conduit. Heat rises. Therefore, foggers put out fog that rises pretty much straight up.

Add in something to run the heated fog through - like a straight length of tubing - and you get fog that has had a chance to cool off a little, therefore won't rise up so fast when exiting the tubing.

The goal is to get your fog colder than the ambient (outside) temperature, so it hugs the ground and you get the classic spooky graveyard/scene where the fog creeps over the ground and flows into the low points. (which is almost impossible if your outside temps get REALLY cold during Halloween season)

Add ice to the tube, and you get a basic chiller setup. There are many different plans out there using tubes, dryer vents, trash cans, ice chests, whatever... a vortex chiller is one that allows the fog to circle around a spiral sort of conduit (creating a vortex motion) before exiting - therefore being cooled down quite a bit more than just a straight length of tubing.

You are limited on how cold the fog can get using basic ice from a freezer. It melts, makes puddles and you have to have alot of it depending on your fog chiller design.

Dry ice can be used instead of regular ice. It is something that needs to be dealt with care as you can get a pretty nasty burn from it (being waaaaaaay below freezing - so no skin contact!) but it has the advantage of being super cold, making even the most basic fog chiller work better, no melty mess since it goes directly from a solid to a gas and requires much less of it.

:)

I think I just talked myself into trying it this year. My local grocery sells it. :rolleyes:
 

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Having used both regular ice and dry ice, I will confirm that dry ice is better at cooling the fog to a lower temperature, and lasts longer. For the price, to me, it's worth using it. You can also use less of it than ice because it's colder, so in the case of putting 10 lbs of ice, perhaps 5 lbs of dry ice would work.

Keep in mind, as has been said on various posts, there are a few important factors to always remember for the ultimate low lying fog.

1. Outside temperature. If it's cold, chances are even with dry ice, your fog will be warmer than the outside ambient temperature and rise fairly quickly. One way to counter this is to read #3.
2. Duration of warm fog in contact with ice. There is a trade off obviously of the power of your fogger, the type of fog juice, and how long it is in contact with the ice before it exits the final whatever it is traveling thru. I had the Chauvet 1250 last year and despite the debacle of the units having only 800 watt heaters, my fogger was MUCH too powerful for the 60qt igloo vortex chiller I built. The fog came out immediately even with packed dry ice and while it laid low.. it rose fairly quickly. This may have been partly due to #1 above, and partly because the fogger was just too powerful for the little chiller, hence.. this #2, not enough contact time with the cold ice/dry ice. I do believe in this case dry ice is better.. if you plan to use a more powerful fogger with smaller chillers, definitely look at either turning down the fogger output (which also helps keep reheat cycles to a minimum and possibly giving you a more continuous flow of fog), and if possible use dry ice given its much colder characteristics.
3. Spray water over the land/grass/whatever, cold water if possible, to help keep the area the fog is traveling over colder, longer.
4. Type of fog juice. As stated above, the best juice by popular opinion is Froggy's. It has a great hang time and is about the same price as any other gallon of juice. That said, experiment a few days before your show... lay down some water, try some regular ice if you can make enough for testing it, and see if you can, grab different qts of juice. I have some Black Label I think it is, and I don't think it's that great. However, I've yet to really be able to test it, so I could be wrong. It's gotten pretty good reviews on the net. Froggy's is still the best and if I didn't have almost 2 gallons of this stuff, I'd have Froggy's this year. It also depends on the realism your going for. Real fog doesn't stay around for a long time, it moves and disappears. Fog juice that says it evaporates faster is better for low lying chillers because it should evaporate before it can warm up and rise. That said, if you're trying to cover a large area and your output is 30 feet away from the end of the area you're trying to cover, chances are the fog will be gone before it can spread that far. To achieve that result, you either need a 2nd fogger and chiller, or perhaps a more powerful fogger and do the long pvc/abs tube with perforated holes along the path, and route it around the areas you want to have fog. Then, load it up with dry ice (so that it lasts all night) if you can, and go to town. That will give the fog longer travel time and will give you more coverage.

BTW, if you and a few others in the area are all looking to do dry ice, and don't have anything near by or want to drive, but have a little money (combined perhaps), for about $300 or so you can get a dry ice making kit, and then you fill up the cartridge with CO2 every so often. The kit plus 1 tank makes quite a bit of dry ice. The costs of filling up the CO2 is far less than buying the dry ice in stores.. but this is only useful if you have enough people interested in pitching in. Heck, if I lived in a remote place I'd consider it, but not many I know do this chiller stuff and its only .89 a lb at Safeway up the street. I only use about 15 or so lbs I believe. I am that crazy tho, that I might actually go buy the kit anyway, so I can make my own dry ice whenever... but not this year. :D
 

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great info.......

i'm trying two effects this year one is to fill my front yard 25' X 30' full of low fog i have access to as much dry ice as a need and was even thinking about maybe using some liquid nitrogen but that would be over kill LOL

i have to go out this weekend and pick up some foggers and pvc i'm going to try it out with 2 of the cheap party city units (only $25 each)

the second effect will be I hope to have the fog flow over and down a 7' archway i just made.........
the arch is a total of 7' wide & made out of solid wood and should hold up to 100lbs of ice with out a problem there is a 3.5' run from the input T in the center of the arch to each side where i want it to exit and fall

i'm hoping i can get it to flow almost all the way down the columns but something tells me it's just going to float away on me LOL

so i'm going to try it out with reg ice this weekend and 1 fogger just to see if it'll work then i'll add a second unit if needed

here is a pict of the archway I should have everything all together at some point this weekend
 

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Wow..that is sick! I may look at doing an arch for next year, but it needs to be something I can take down and store easily enough!

First, I've read that the foggers at target for $19 are really good. I would guess they are the same basic internals... I doubt there are many different generic branded 400 watt foggers out there. Most likely the walmart, target, party city, etc are the same fogger manufacturer with different companies slapping there names on it. That said, a 400 watt fogger would probably be fine if you used froggy's juice. You could probably PM Gorey and see if he (from minions web) could get some out to you in time for halloween.. its the same price as other juice. You want the stuff that lasts longer, not the low lying fog stuff because it's made to disappear faster to give it a more realistic fog effect. If you use dry ice like you said, and have a good 3' or longer of it, I bet it will flow to the ground and then some. Another idea is to have a perforated pvc over the arch itself, maybe with 1" or 1/2" diamter pipes coming out thru the bottom of the arch above the heads of people walking by, and have some fog come thru there as well.

Last year I had a 1250 Chauvet (which if you follow/look at the thread that's been going on since last year, you'll find out they were basically 800watt foggers), and it was still too powerful for my 60qt igloo vortex style chiller. So a 400 watt may be perfect to do what you're doing.

Can't wait to see it all put together and working! Keep us posted.
 

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Yeah i made the arch so that as seen it break down into 5 parts and i plan on using them for storage as well LOL

as for the arch itself well it will be over my electric chair so i'm not really exactly sure how i am going to run the fog yet but i will keep you posted

i'm hoping to really finish both these up this weekend so i can get started on something else LOL

time will tell

 

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I was thinking of trying a combo of regular and dry ice this year. Maybe some dry ice in a tube coming out of my barrel style chiller full of regular ice. Anyone ever tried that?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I was thinking of trying a combo of regular and dry ice this year. Maybe some dry ice in a tube coming out of my barrel style chiller full of regular ice. Anyone ever tried that?
I honestly cant see a reason for doing so. If your already buying dry ice which is 4-5x colder why go backwards? :confused:

Confucius your prop is looking killer by the way!
 

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I don't understand why people want to make ground fog so hard. While the vortex designs work its inefficient. A abs pipe with chunks of dry ice works better, its smaller, its cheaper and there is no mess. Dry ice prices have come way down, so I just don't get it. Are people afraid of the stuff? Don't eat it and use gloves. Pretty basic. Sorry guys if i seem irritated. I just got done helping a friend with his 2 home made (vortex) chillers and I just don't get it. Yes he is afraid of dry ice. Anyway I'm sure I'll get at least one flame for this but oh well. I had to pose the question.:confused:
I live in Massachusetts and I know of no grocery store that sells dry ice. Why is dry ice so readily available where you live? What else would you use it for? Grocery stores wouldn't sell it unless there was year round demand for it.
 

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I honestly cant see a reason for doing so. If your already buying dry ice which is 4-5x colder why go backwards? :confused:

Confucius your prop is looking killer by the way!
Well my theory was to start the "chill" in the regular ice, then through the dry to help reduce the strain on the dry ice to help conserve it. I can get it in my area, but it's expensive.
 

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How much is it in your area? It runs about $1 a lb here. I plan to get 10lbs or so.. see how that works early in the day on the 31st.. if it's not enough grab another 10. It also depends on the wind.. if there is a lot of wind out, I'll probably just get ice from various neighbors and go that route and avoid paying for it. Even tho dry ice is a lot better at chilling the fog.. if the wind is up, it won't matter how cold it is, be it ice or dry ice.. it's going to get blown away.

I'd say, for your can chiller.. as long as you got a drain plug at the bottom so the water can drain out, you should be good either way. I liked that about the igloo coolers.. they have the insulation to help keep it colder and a drain plug. $30 for the 60qt at Walmart tho.. I won't be doing it this year I don't think.
 
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