Thread: help a newb

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I got into the prop building 3 years ago. I have been rigging so diy project with the door closer and sprinkler vaulve setup.. It has worked well for what I needed and still love how cheep I can get props to do there thing. I was wanting to know how others power the sprinkler vaulves. I have used some of the vaulves out of a dishwasher also and it worked well but it is 110v and from what I have read people are not recomending that for safty. I am a cheap lets get it working kinda guy. I would like to see how other people get there cheap projects moving.

Thanks

p.s. Pics or links would be great

Cheap is nice...believe strongly in it myself. But when it comes to pneumatics, not such a good idea. Compressed gas is very energetic...much more so that fluids at the same pressures. Mainly due to the fact that they expand greatly and tend to send dangerous debris flying farther and faster. Homemade pneumatic parts (such a door closers, bicycle pumps, or PVC plumbing bits) are definitely cheap...but you truly get what you pay for. And the doctor bill, or lawsuit, is certainly going to be way more than what you save by not using parts specifically designed for compressed gases. PVC and other stiff plastics are probably the worst materials you can use. When they rupture, they tend to shatter into razor sharp shards that the rapidly expanding gas will send flying at dangerous velocities. Metal tends to just rip or tear, not shatter.

The cheapest and safest way to jump into pneumatics is probably to buy a kit. You're guaranteed that the parts will fit and work together...safely. Buying all the parts separately may be cheaper...but not significantly so. The cheapest kits I've seen are from Monster Guts. They're also very willing to help one with advice and such.

thanks for the help and ideas..I was thinking that a kit would cost way more than that

put it this way go with the cheap stuff a greater risk of getting injured which will cost you sooo much more then it would just to go with the safer profucts that are guarenteed to work and also not explode and either leave you blind and deaf or scrap metal in your body just keeping it realsitic

If your real concern is for safety ,you would not use a dishwasher valve in a pneumatic application, it was not designed for it. Here is a very good tutorial on pneumatics that is very easy to understand and gives a lot of good information Beginner's Guide to Props and Pneumatics There is a HUGE misconception about pressure, meaning liquid vs gas. Check out the tutorial and I think you'll see there is a difference

thank you so much.. that is the best link i have seen for this.. I on ebay finding my parts lol

Ok I got the basic and that how I did my first props. I was very close to info given but learned more about the controller. Lots of good stuff on the setup and understandings of everything, thanks again. I now have another ?. What size cylinders are you all using for the different props. head poper is probably 10" stroke, same with pop up/sit up props. Am I thinking right? What do I need to use to make them shake like some of the ground breaker and eletric chair props. Is that all done with the controllers??? Need more input!!! I need ideas and maybe a parts list...I got the prop bug bad and need to get it under control soon. I go to bed and Im up all night trying to figure out what I need and how to put stuff together in my head and my brain wont shut down. Help me get started so I can get some sleep..lol... First year I could sleep for a few weeks, last year it started in mid september, this year I got it so bad that as soon as the 4th of july was over the sleepless night insued....In the past I didnt get sleep until I built a prop.....help me... I guess next year it will be the year I just build and build all year...lol

This forum is the best and Im happy to say, Thanks for the sleepless nights. You all are great and hope to be a part of it for along time to come...

You do what you want and if you can get "real cylinders" and "real valves" that is the way to go but...

I'm still waiting for that first picture of just ONE of these injuries that people keep saying will happen if you use a door closer or a dishwasher valve. It's going on ten years since I first joined a Halloween Prop making Forum and I still haven't seen one first hand account of one of these so called injuries.

I find it very strange that people are scared of PVC shattering and pieces of it flying out and hurting a ToT ....but they keep building their linkage and bodies out of it. All of that pounding the PVC takes and moving at such fast speeds. What happens to that PVC if it shattering from all the banging?

Air Pressure isn't what causes PVC to shatter into smaller, sharp pieces....it's the cold temperatures that changes the compound from a "rubber like" to a hard plastic

Like I said, if you can get the "real thing" use it, it really is a lot easier to work with. But if for what ever reason you can't, use your door closer and the dishwasher valve with the same caution you should use with any air cylinder and you will be safe and so will the ToTs.

The same goes with using AC...do you think twice about plugging in a lamp or a fan? Enclose the electrical connections (tape, hot glue...a box) on the dishwasher valve and it's just as safe as turning on your lamp or fan.

Originally Posted by madmax

You do what you want and if you can get "real cylinders" and "real valves" that is the way to go but...

I'm still waiting for that first picture of just ONE of these injuries that people keep saying will happen if you use a door closer or a dishwasher valve. It's going on ten years since I first joined a Halloween Prop making Forum and I still haven't seen one first hand account of one of these so called injuries.

I find it very strange that people are scared of PVC shattering and pieces of it flying out and hurting a ToT ....but they keep building their linkage and bodies out of it. All of that pounding the PVC takes and moving at such fast speeds. What happens to that PVC if it shattering from all the banging?

Air Pressure isn't what causes PVC to shatter into smaller, sharp pieces....it's the cold temperatures that changes the compound from a "rubber like" to a hard plastic

Like I said, if you can get the "real thing" use it, it really is a lot easier to work with. But if for what ever reason you can't, use your door closer and the dishwasher valve with the same caution you should use with any air cylinder and you will be safe and so will the ToTs.

The same goes with using AC...do you think twice about plugging in a lamp or a fan? Enclose the electrical connections (tape, hot glue...a box) on the dishwasher valve and it's just as safe as turning on your lamp or fan.

I think that you are correct in that if you build it safe it will be safe. I also think that going for the rappid shaking/jerking I could see having the better equipment so as not to chance the failure. I think that there is enough protection from flying shards if it where to go there, just in the clothing and such covering my exsisting props. The props I want to build are going to be (hopfully) crazzy shaking/jerking electric chair, and a the other will be someone stuck in a snow blower or tiller. I think the snow blower because I shoot blood out of it when the the prop starts shaking.

Thanks for the help

I don't really think anyone was saying "don't" build homemade pneumatic parts. Just handing out warnings. If you don't know about the dangers, how can you prepare for or mitigate them? Forewarned is forearmed, yes?

And madmax is right, people do build a lot of armatures and linkages from PVC. I do it myself. It's cheap, lightweight, and easy to work with. But the difference is, these parts aren't filled with pressurized gas. That's where the potential danger lays.

The people over at Wolfstone Halloween (http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/N...oweenTech.html) also have some good information for putting pneumatics together. Including some good stuff on building homemade cylinders and converting old propane bottles for use with pneumatic props.

Another good starting place is ScaryGuys (http://www.scaryguys.com/information.html).

buggynut, if you want a shaking/rattling prop...search for Monster in a box type props. The whole idea behind them is to shake the heck out of a crate/box so it looks like a monster is trying to break out. Some people build them with pneumatic cylinders, some use a high speed motor with an off-center spinning weight, others use a motor and linkage. You might be able to adapt it for your electric chair thing.

If you want to get a feel for the wide variety of pneumatic cylinders types available, check out Grainger. However, they sell for a premium price. You can do better price-wise by shopping around. But you can browse a large number of parts in one place and get an idea of what you want/need.