Thread: Will we always have ToTing?

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Okay, hope this isn't a downer.

On one of my other forums (it's not related to Halloween but has an "Other Subjects" board) someone posted about ToTers and how rude they were, etc.

People were giving this poster tips. And MOST people were saying just don't give out candy at all and that it was a weird custom and that sort of thing. These people are all from the U.S. and many grew up ToTing, by the way; they said so.

Everyone was saying the world is a scarier place today, the ToTing of our childhoods was based on community and trust and people don't really have that any more, and parents are afraid for their children, etc. and that there just isn't really a logical place any more for ToTing. It used to be a run-around-in-the-dark-without-your-parents sort of thing but now no parent will let his or her child out alone, etc., etc., etc.

NONE of these people were nasty about it or were "Halloween haters" and before you even ask, religion didn't come into the equation at all.

I wonder. Is it true? Is it...weird to ToT now? It seemed so natural when I was a little kid (in the 70s). It also felt like it had been around forever, though it hadn't (I think it started as a real tradition at the end of the 30s, right?). But now things really are so different. People are terrified to open their doors to other people (though not in my neighborhood, but I'm getting the feeling we're the exception).

There was also a lot of grousing about how underprivileged kids' parents were taking them into the more well-to-do neighborhoods and were rude and nasty about it and the parents were demanding candy too and blah blah blah.

The saddest thing is that most of these people were saying that *they* loved ToTing when they were little and had great memories of it! -- but that now it's "different" and not a community thing and kids and adults alike are too greedy about the candy and they fear their homes will get egged if they don't hand good enough stuff out so instead they just pretend they ran out of candy or even that they're not home at all...etc.

What does everyone here think? Is there still a place for ToTing? A cultural place, I mean. We try to make it so safe that it's really not scary any more (which is not to say I don't want my kids safe...I'm as bad as any other parent out there being terrified to let my kids wander more than 5 feet away from me ).

I mean so many people complain that they get fewer ToTers each year, or that they get far fewer than they remember on their own blocks as children, and I know I worry each year that I won't get enough ToTers to justify what I spent on money and trinkets (I have gotten 50 ToTers two years in a row; the years before that there were as many as 20 and as few as zero in the past five years we've lived here). When I was a little girl I remember twisting closed literally hundreds of little paper treat sacks and still running out before the night was over...it was just expected that nearly every kid would ToT...now there are a thousand "instead-ofs" (like Trunk or Treat)...I'm not dissing Trunk or Treat, by the way. I feel like a creep...like I'm trying to bribe kids to ToT at my house by giving out outrageously huge goody bags. It makes me feel...almost creepy! I actually questioned myself this year. I thought, What if all the parents are creeped out by how much I'm giving out? And you know what...that's sad.

I feel like each year I try harder to get kids to ToT...as if I'm forcing my own good memories on them or something...oh, I don't know. That sounds really depressing and I'm def. not super-depressed about this (I personally will always decorate for H'ween no matter what!) but...I feel like times really have changed and now you have to *convince* families to let their kids out (or to go with them, and that's even harder b/c so many parents just don't feel like walking around like that...I personally love ToTing with my sons but I feel like I'm in a minority).

I feel sometimes like I'm begging or twisting people's arm to have a good time or something. "Smile, dammit!"

I'd love to open this up for discussion. What are people's thoughts?

Yes...but in our own fragmented societal ways. It's true that the sense of community is gone. There seems to be a general distrust out there.

Very interesting to get this non-Halloween fanatic view point

I am the parent of a preschooler. The latest information out there is that this idea that the world is a much more dangerous place now than a generation ago, is a myth.
There are LESS child abductions now, not more.

It does seem true that we alienate ourselves from our communities, our neighbors, causing us to feel mistrust.
This reminds me of another parenting trend now-helicoptering. It goes as far as hand holding your college student through every decision, resulting in some quite helpless young adults.

I feel that TOTing still has a long life ahead. I think it's just this generation of parents, feeling the way they do about"stranger danger" and the like (fingers crossed!)

I do think that today's sense of community has changed dramatically from what it used to be. We "friend" online, but may not know our next door neighbors. We chat and share pictures with perfect strangers, and tweet and post and are otherwise making our social connections in virtual space - while neglecting real face-to-face interactions. (and I do recognize the irony that I'm posting this on a message board )

This can't help but affect something like trick-or-treating. I hate the idea that TOT will die out, but it takes a strong sense of community and social connection and trust to let your child out there on the streets and kids have so many other forms of entertainment - that is asking just a little too much of today's families it seems.

I hope I'm wrong, tho.

What we're noticing is the large number or parents who now accompany kids on their rounds. When we were very young, our dad would walk with us, but after we were 8 or 9, we could go to certain streets/houses on our own. Now you see just a many parents as you do kids. Not sure if it's a safety thing, general paranoia or parents just wanting to get out and enjoy the night. Either way looking at some of the numbers posted for TOT's, it's doubtful it will ever completely die off. It's engrained in our traditions and hopefully will always be a part of the Amercian society.

It always bugs me when people say it's more dangerous out there than it used to be. I wonder if that's actually true or if you only hear about the bad things more often than you used to. Before cell phones the Internet and media hype (yes the media has always hyped things but lately it's reached epic proportions of silly) if someone hurt or abducted a kid I'm sure you would have never heard about it outside the local community! Most of those "real horror stories" about poisoned candy, etc, have all been proven to be nothing more than false urban legends anyway. I know there's several neighborhoods near me where there's hundreds of ToTs every year, I think it's just in my general section that there's less and less kids since we have few new move-ins and the parents of the kids from 20 years ago are probably grandparents by now and won't be having any new ones. (Florida: Heaven's Waiting Room). Hopefully ToT will be still be around for a very long time. (and I know if I was a parent I'd be out with the kids, but mostly to see what other haunters have done! )

Halloween has actually brought us closer to our neighbors

For the last two years our neighbors have come by while we have been setting up and introducing themselves or offering to help set up/ tear down

And for the last 2 years we have gotten a ton of tots.... all of which have been incredibly nice and well behaved

Toting is a community building activity... it is sad someone would see it as weird or unneeded

But in my opinion many of these posters didn't want to spend the money or time, and were looking for any and every excuse not to
They were trying to prove that the problem was with everyone else (the kids, the parents, the society) and not with them

And in mmy opinion, homewoners like these are the reason that parents are not toting.... walking down a street and not finding one light on... having homeowners with crazy criteria about who deserves candy... what parent or kid needs that

And BTW how do they know that the rude and nasty people were "underprivledged kids parents"
and what is the problem with underprivledged kids parents trying to find somewhere safe to tot?

The one day that everyone has the opportunity to be nice to kids in their community... and people try to find a 1,000 reasons not to do it.... that is truly sad.... and that is what is destroying our communities.....

I know here when I was younger haunting basically died out in town. I remember when I was 13 and my brother was 8 that was our last year trick r treating. It just wasn't worth it with so many houses closed down and not giving out candy add in that every single elementary school and church did, fall festivals - though back then the schools still would say halloween - the mall doing it's own thing as well. Take all that, as it still all happens, and toss int trunk r treating as well and ToT's just didn't go out anymore.

Last year was the first year I was able to pass out candy from a house instead of apt. Had the most ToT's I had seen since I was 9 or 10 and was great only had 3 pain in the butt teens, and if they'ed been polite they would have gotten candy. This year we had many less ToT's I think it's because it was on Sunday primarily, and about half were teens. They all came in costumes and were all polite, so no complaints forth coming.

Next door neighbors were really the only ones who decorated and at one point I went outside to look who was giving out and across 2 block only 10 houses had porch lights on. Why this is I'm not sure, could be that just a few blocks from here a lot of the low income and poverty stricken had to move in, as the city kicked them out of their homes and bull dozed them to build condos and town homes, so they are now treating our neighborhood. If this is the case then I really think that's pathetic of them for not turning on their lights. At the same time though some friends of mine live in a "bad" part of town and had so many ToT's they went through 50 pounds of candy. Where as I only went through maybe 8 pounds.

Maybe it's not just a society thing, maybe it's also a matter of location and timing and community that already exists and is inclusive instead of exclusive. I don't know what exactly it is but I do believe if you build it the will come. If your handing out candy and scares they will come in groups.